Podcast: God’s Plan for Corporate Worship (Matt Merker)

This article is part of the The Crossway Podcast series.

The Glories of Corporate Worship

In this episode, Matt Merker discusses the central importance of corporate worship for the life of the Christian. He shares his thoughts on the effect that the COVID-19 pandemic could have on church gatherings in the future, explains why the concept of a church liturgy is a good and necessary thing, and offers encouragement to the person who may be toying with the idea of not returning to church once the pandemic is over.

Corporate Worship

Matt Merker

In this addition to the 9Marks Building Healthy Churches series, Matt Merker explores the biblical understanding of corporate worship as an activity where God gathers the church by his grace, unto his glory, for their mutual good, and before the world’s gaze.

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Topics Addressed in This Interview:

01:54 - Corporate Worship and the Pandemic

Matt Tully
Matt, thank you so much for joining me today on The Crossway Podcast.

Matt Merker
Thanks, Matt. Great to be here.

Matt Tully
As we record this, we are still in the midst of a global pandemic. Although various vaccines are being deployed all around the country and the world, it looks like we’re still quite a long way from getting back to any semblance of “normal life.” As everyone listening right now will know, the pandemic has had a really massive impact on how our churches have been functioning, and in particular, with corporate worship. The rhythm of our gathering together from week to week has been pretty disrupted in a lot of unprecedented ways. My first question for you is, if you could put on your prophet hat, what do you think might be the long-term effects of the pandemic on how Christians—particularly evangelical Christians—view and participate in corporate worship going forward?

Matt Merker
I think it could have a couple of effects. One, my prayer is that this pandemic would cause us to realize how precious the church gathering is. It is vital that God’s people meet. It is what he calls us to do. It is of the essence of the church that we gather. The Sunday meeting is a chief means of grace by which God encourages and nourishes and sanctifies his people. To not have that, or to have that curtailed in various ways—to be able to meet but to have to do it in masks or sing through masks or have a shorter service or not be able to take the Lord’s Supper or have to sit six feet away—churches have had various strategies of trying to abide by what is healthy and wise, but they’ve all made it different. Many churches have had to take a break from meeting in person. My prayer is that the pandemic will help us to prize and treasure the church gathering more, and that when we come back it will be better than ever. On the other hand, my fear is that some may get to used to online streaming “church services.” I don’t actually believe that there is such a thing as online church technically, theologically. I think it’s great that churches have tried to use technology to try to teach the Bible, to encourage people, to get together for virtual prayer meetings; but it’s not the same. We can’t baptize over the Internet. I don’t think we can take the Lord’s Supper over the Internet. So, I fear that some who have embraced technology for good reasons—for trying to keep proclaiming the gospel for people who are interested in hearing it, to continue to be able to encourage and teach their people—I don’t want us to get too used to that. The in-person, embodied physical gathering of the body of Christ, his people, is still vital, so we’ve got to make sure that it is when the pandemic is over.

04:51 - The Centrality of Corporate Worship

Matt Tully
Let’s dig into the central importance of corporate worship. In the foreword of your book written by Ligon Duncan, he quotes a Protestant historian by the name of Hughes Oliphant Old, which is just an awesome name. He writes: “We worship God because God created us to worship him. Worship is at the center of our existence, at the heart of our reason for being.” I think that likely resonates with many of us, but maybe even in particular those who might want to emphasize that all our lives are meant to be worship to God, not just what we do on Sunday mornings. Maybe speak to that dynamic a little bit. What is so important about corporate worship—this gathering together of Christians in a single spot, in a church building even? Why is that so important? How does that relate to a more general idea that our lives are meant for worship of God?

Matt Merker
Individual, all-of-life worship and corporate-gathered worship aren’t exclusive; they’re reinforcing and complementary. So, of course, the purpose of life is worshiping and glorifying the triune God. We do that as we drive in our cars, as we do the dishes, as we work in our various callings, as we care for family, as we love our neighbor, as we seek to be good citizens and do acts of justice and mercy in the public square. But, God has set apart a people for himself, and he’s called that people to gather regularly. Jesus connects our exercise of the keys of the kingdom as a congregation to when we are gathered in his name (Matt. 18). Some of the most important work that we do as God’s people comes when we gather. We see all throughout the New Testament instructions for what to do “when you gather as a church,” Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11. There is a distinct time that the New Testament expects believers to meet for God’s praise, for edifying one another. That then sends us out as scattered members of the church to continue to glorify and honor God through our lives the rest of the week. So, corporate worship, in a sense, is a summation of all that we’re doing the rest of our lives. We’re all worshiping God in our various ways, and then we come together and we do it together. But it also equips us for all-of-life worship as we’re then sent out to live a life that is a sacrifice of praise.

Matt Tully
I’ve often heard different pastors use two different ways of describing the relationship between Sunday (as a standard for corporate worship) and the rest of the week. Some would seem to emphasize that Sunday is preparation for living out our lives as followers of Christ, worshiping God Monday to Saturday. And others would view Monday to Saturday as preparation for Sunday—gathering together to worship. Do you think there’s any validity to that dynamic? Which of those would you lean more towards?

Matt Merker
Both. I think it’s all true. I have nothing else to say. I would just want to say yes.

Matt Tully
Do you think it’s possible to overemphasize corporate worship?

Matt Merker
I can’t really imagine that. No. At least in our day and age, corporate worship for many—I think this is subconscious and with the best of intentions—is really experienced as individual worship on steroids. I come to church and I’m led in music by this awesome band that stirs my emotions, and I’m able to have a more intimate experience of fellowship with God the Holy Spirit, and I’m getting this supercharge of spiritual energy and power from an inspiring talk. I think, sadly, too often in evangelicalism the things that people get out of the corporate worship gathering are really things about their own personal worship. It’s not bad to be encouraged by the sermon. It’s not bad to have a sense of God’s presence by his Spirit. His Spirit dwells in us individually and corporately. But I do think that there needs to be more of an emphasis placed on the fact that when we gather it is the Spirit that dwells in us corporately. The local church is the temple where the Spirit dwells. When we gather, it’s not just me being built up or me praising God and pouring out my heart to God. It is us a whole church being formed corporately and expressing together our joint thanks and praise to the God who has redeemed us in Christ. Eternity will be, in one sense, corporate worship. We will all be gathered around the throne. I don’t know exactly what we will be doing every single moment or instant in the new creation, but I think corporate worship today is anticipation for the eternity that we will enjoy glorifying God together as his people in the New Jerusalem.

Matt Tully
It seems like that understanding of corporate worship—or, let’s just say of Sundays and what we’re doing on Sundays—of I’m there to worship God and get my tank filled up is such a common understanding, and often we don’t really fully grasp the actual true value and significance of something happening that is bigger than just my own experience of God.

Matt Merker
Totally. The thing is, it’s so dangerous because there is a truth in there. When God gathers us for corporate worship, he fills us; he serves us before we serve him; he pours out his grace; he teaches us; he encourages us through the gospel; he speaks by his Word. Spiritual, supernatural stuff is happening when he gathers the church, and it should fill us up. And, when we meet with God’s people, they serve us and they fill us up where we’re empty. They encourage us, they comfort us, they hug us (in non-pandemic times), they serve the Lord’s Supper to us, they baptize us when we become a Christian. So, we are filled up, we are blessed, we are encouraged; but yet, we’re also pouring ourselves out at the same time. We are pouring ourselves out in an offering of praise vertically to God; we’re pouring ourselves out horizontally in service and love and edification to others. So yes, we come to church to be served by God and his people, but we also come to church to serve God and his people. The things happen simultaneously and they reinforce each other.

Matt Tully
You’ve said, “There’s a connection between how a congregation understands itself to be a church, and the way it worships as a church.” I think that connects to what we’re talking about right now. Unpack that a little bit. What do you mean by that?

Matt Merker
I think the more a congregation is aware of their identity as a corporate entity—as the body of Christ, a temple for his Spirit, the outpost of God’s kingdom on earth authorized to represent God as his ambassadors—when we understand that’s who we are, it gives shape to the things that we’re doing. That’s why we’re singing songs about how Christ is King, because our hope isn’t in any earthly king; it’s in Jesus Christ, the only true Lord of all creation. That’s why we spend so much time confessing our sin in prayer because we are a temple of the Holy Spirit, and we understand that God speaks to us in his Word and convicts us of sin and it is appropriate for us, as a sinful though redeemed people, to acknowledge that before God. Just like if you understand yourself to be a member of your particular family or a citizen of a particular nation, that influences what you do. I’m a citizen of America; when I go watch my lovable losers, the New York Mets, play, the national anthem of America happens to be sung. That’s because we’re meeting in America. Those things are so basic that we don’t really even notice them, but when we gather as God’s people, we’re singing the national anthems of the kingdom of God in the hymns that we sing. So we’re being further formed and matured and developed as citizens of that kingdom who love its King and who abide by his laws and his priorities.

Matt Tully
That connection between who we are and what we do also goes the other way. You take the analogy of your family eating dinner together and you write, “Who we are as a family shapes what we do. Then what we do when we gather around the family table shapes who we are. Our meal flows from and reinforces our family identity.” That seems like a really important point that maybe we don’t always unpack the way we should, so help us understand that. How does who we are as Christians—as a local church—and then what we’re doing together—in worshiping God together—how does that second part actually form the first?

Matt Merker
You come together as a church, and because you are the redeemed people of God, you sing of God’s grace. For example, you sing a song like “Grace Greater Than Our Sin.” Why? Because grace is what we have received. God’s grace has drawn us into right relationship with him through Christ. Singing that reflects who we are. We are not those who come with something to bring. “Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to thy cross I cling.” That’s our motto. But, singing it reminds us of that because it’s easy to forget that. It’s easy to think, I need to be better this week so that I can be more confident of God’s love for me. I need to, I must, I want to . . . And actually, his love for us is because of his love for us. It’s because of his grace. It’s unearned; it’s free. So I sing that—we sing that—and we’re reminded of the fact that we’re going to go out of here today and we’re going to live as a community of people who are recipients of grace. So now, in our common life together—in our relationships, in our friendships, in our families, in our small groups—that’s going to inform the way we live. Recipients of grace show grace, and we’re going to show it to one another. That’s part of how we’re going to be a witness to the watching world is as a grace-receiving people, we will now be a grace-giving people. We will show hospitality when it’s inconvenient. We will cover over a multitude of sins because we have been forgiven. We will engage and embody a different type of discourse, even around disagreements, than the world shows. We will have deep relationships across ethnic lines or lines of class or nationality that make the world ponder and wonder how this could be. All because we’re a grace-receiving people, which has been reinforced by the fact that that is the message that we heard in the song that we sang when we gathered.

Matt Tully
Hearing you talk about the power of the how—how we worship together—forming the who—who we are—makes me think of that famous Marshall McLuhan quote related to the impact of various forms of media—“The medium is the message.” Do you see any connection there?

Matt Merker
Definitely. It’s a hugely useful truth that has a lot of implications. When it comes to corporate worship, we have to always remember that everything we’re doing when the church gathers is teaching something about God and teaching something about the Christian life; it’s not neutral. In one sense, corporate worship is directed upward at God, of course, because we’re gathering to praise and love and thank him; but, in another sense it’s discipleship. It’s teaching. It’s part of Christian formation. That’s subtle and it’s subliminal, but it’s something that pastors and song leaders, and elders especially, need to be aware of.

17:44 - Corporate Worship and Liturgy

Matt Tully
It can be so easy to focus just on the verbal content of the songs or of the teaching—all of which is so important, obviously—and yet, maybe downplay the significance of the forms and the way that we’re packaging those things and presenting those things, because those are significant. That actually segues into maybe a broader issue of the idea of liturgy. I’m sure at the mention of that very word, some people listening right now are cheering, Yes! The evangelical church needs to recover this idea of liturgy and the value that it can have! But others listening might feel this concern about an increasing interest, especially among young evangelicals, related to recovering liturgical forms of worship and that feeling cold and stale and maybe easy to abuse. Maybe others listening are indifferent—they don’t really know what to think about that. They just know what they’ve always experienced, whatever that might be. Help us think through that. How would you define this idea of liturgy? How might we think about that as Christians when it comes to how we worship together?

Matt Merker
Excellent question. Lot’s there. It’s a bit of a buzzword, and so I do think it’s important to define it. The root of the word comes from the idea of a public work. I think it’s helpful to think about liturgy in the sense of what God is doing—what he is working in and through his people as he gathers us for his glory. So, liturgy is something God does, ultimately and theologically. Sometimes when people talk about liturgy, they are talking about certain forms or structures of a service. I prefer to talk about liturgy with a lowercase L, referring to the order of the service. A liturgy is the sequence of things that happen when the church meets. In that sense, every church has a liturgy, whether you know it or not, or whether you like it or not. An example of a liturgy is we have an upbeat opening song, and then someone gets up and gives a few announcements, and then we have three more songs, and then there’s a video, and then the pastor gets up and gives a talk. That is a liturgy. Over time, that liturgy will shape people; it will inform them about certain values; it will communicate certain things about Christianity and the Christian life. I say content is always more important than form, but form shapes content. So, the liturgy that I just shared, which is almost an exaggeration, but sadly, it’s kind of not. There are church services I’ve been to that have singing and have a message, but have very little prayer. Or, the prayer functions kind of like a transition from the songs to the sermon.

Matt Tully
It’s just so that the musicians can get off the stage and make room for the pastor. That’s really all it’s there for.

Matt Merker
Yes. Or, church services where the preacher will read a text, if you’re lucky. Or, while he’s preaching, he’ll refer to a few different texts in different places in the Bible, but other than that, there is no time set aside for Scripture reading as its own thing. Ligon Duncan has said, “Public reading of the Word of God should be an event.” Paul tells Timothy, “Devote yourselves to the public reading of Scripture” (1 Tim. 4:13). Some liturgies are just devoid of things that the Bible says we should do, like commit ourselves to prayer and to the reading of Scripture. But even if you have those things, the way in which they are arranged is significant. When you look at history, it’s illuminating to see that at the time of the Reformation when a lot of liturgical reform was taking place, a) it’s illuminating to see that the Reformers didn’t all adopt the exact same liturgy. There was freedom; there was flexibility. But then b) it is also illuminating to see that their liturgies have some patterns and some similarities. Jonathan Gibson and Mark Earngey have done us a great service with collecting a lot of those in a book called Reformation Worship, which I rely on heavily in my book, shamelessly; I quote it all the time. What you see in that is there’s often a scriptural call to worship where the service is begun, essentially, with God speaking to us. God takes the initiative. He opens things up, in a sense, because we’re reading his Word first. His Word is setting the agenda. When we encounter God’s goodness and his holiness in his law, it is appropriate then to confess our sins, either through prayer or through song. After we’ve confessed our sins, it is often appropriate to thank God for the grace that he’s given us in Christ. Once we’ve recognized the good news that we can be forgiven through repentance and faith in Christ, then often comes the sermon where we are now instructed in that grace. We are instructed in how to live in light of it. These patterns are simple, they are subtle; but over time, if a church deliberately and wisely structures its liturgy based on these sorts of things, that will communicate to people certain values and certain truths about theology and the Christian life.

Matt Tully
It seems like your emphasis is less on a specific liturgy being right or wrong and more on the importance of intentionality. It seems like that’s one of the things that is the most dangerous—a lack of intentionality when it comes to the order, a lack of acknowledging how we set up a corporate worship service matters, not just the content.

Matt Merker
That’s right. I actually don’t think it’s a lack of intentionality. For those who have a worship service that is not reflective of those sorts of realities—confession of sin, reminder of God’s grace, full of Scripture reading—I actually want to give those churches more credit. I understand them to be doing something deliberate, which I think is dangerous, in having a worship service that has little prayer and little Scripture reading and preaching that is often not substantive and not nourishing to the flock. I think that’s a danger, and it’s been a deliberate move to try and make a church service more welcoming to outsiders. That’s a great goal and a great motive and I really appreciate the evangelistic heart behind that, but I think that we do need to be more intentional about making our services more saturated with Scripture. That doesn’t mean they need to be six hours long. It means that the truth and the delight and the radiance and riches of God’s Word needs to be what we’re really excited and on about when we meet because it’s nourishing to the Christian and it gives life to the non-Christian when they hear the good news proclaimed through the Word—preaching and read and prayed and sung.

Matt Tully
Speak to the pastor listening right now who is hearing this and is thinking, I resonate with that. I feel like I could do a better job, and the leadership team at the church could do a better job, of intentionally leading the church in worship in a way that does raise up God’s Word and prayer and all these things. But maybe they don’t know how to do that or where to start or even may be thinking, If I mention that word—liturgy—people in my church are going to have all these red flags everywhere because they associate that with Roman Catholicism or some other high church tradition that is just not who we are. What would you say to that guy?

Matt Merker
First, I would say great! You don’t have to use the word liturgy. It doesn’t matter. Second, it’s great to want to make those changes, but you probably do need to go slow and teach on it because when you mess with the Sunday service, people are going to notice, and people are going to get a little upset because, rightly so, the Sunday service is a really ingrained part of our lives and our expectations. So, you’ve got to teach on why you’re doing it. You can use a sermon series, or you can use little teaching moments in the service: We’re going to start doing this, and here’s why. We’re going to start having a regular Prayer of Confession, and here’s why this is so important. Here’s where we see this done in Scripture. Let’s check out Psalm 51 and see how David confessed his sins to the Lord. We’re going to read that now, and then we’re going to have a prayer based on that. You teach people why you’re doing it and you kind of hold their hand through it. Make the changes slowly. I think it’s really important to have the whole elder board united about this sort of thing so that if people accuse the pastor and say, Oh, you listened to some podcast, or you read some book, and now you want to try this whole other thing. But it’s actually, No, the elders have prayerfully taken time to study the issue of the order of service—you don’t have to call it liturgy—and we’ve prayed for wisdom, and we’ve decided that we want to include more Scripture reading, we want to change the sequence (or order) of where things happen, and these are the reasons why. I think that would be the way that you would want to go about it.

27:25 - Don’t Miss Out on the Glories of Corporate Worship

Matt Tully
Going back a little bit to that topic of the pandemic where we started this conversation, you mentioned that you foresaw maybe two types of people coming out of this—some who are longing to be back together in person worshiping God as a community, and maybe others who have gotten comfortable with the idea of at-home church and all that that entails. Maybe there’s somebody listening right now who, if they were being honest, they would have to say they actually aren’t that excited about going back to in-person church. They’ve appreciated the convenience and the flexibility and maybe just the low keyness of sitting at home on their couch in their pj’s watching a service on their phone or on their TV. Rather than condemn that person—

Matt Merker
Of course.

Matt Tully
—tell them what glories they would be missing if they don’t return to corporate worship when they can.

Matt Merker
I love the question. I understand. This has been a hard year—whether it’s sickness, being discouraged by the news, a pandemic, appropriate calls for racial justice and a reckoning with the history of systemic racism in our country, an election that was very divisive. It can be really easy to just want to stay home because it’s hard to meet with people who might disagree about some of these things. There were times when our church was not meeting in person, and I can tell you the coffee is better when I make it at my house. What you’re missing if you don’t go back is first, there is something sacred and special and distinct that happens when you hear the Word of God echoing around you, not just in the voice of a preacher through a computer screen but when you hear brothers and sisters near you say amen to a prayer. And when you’re singing “My sin, oh, the bliss of this glorious thought! My sin, not in part but the whole is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more. Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, o my soul!” When Maxine is singing that and she’s in her 70s and you’ve known her for 10 years and you’ve seen when her husband passed away recently and you know the physical challenges she has, you see her still singing that and you know that her hope is in the Lord—that’s irreplaceable. You can’t get that at home on your couch. The Lord intends to do deep encouragement to your soul through that sort of thing. You might not always feel it and it might not always leave you on a mountaintop high. It’s the type of thing that is more subtle and gradual that happens over weeks and weeks and months and months and years and years. It’s the sort of encouragement and building up that we get from being with our brothers and sisters who love us and who have covenanted with us. But then the second thing—the flip side—is those people need that encouragement from you! So I need to get up off of my behind and get myself to church because somebody out there needs to hear me singing “It Is Well” or see it in my eyes or be reminded of something because I may have made an off-hand comment at the coffee table—Wasn’t that point of the sermon encouraging?—and they were actually checking out during that point, so now they’re going to go home and listen again and that was actually the point that they really needed to hear. There’s just a thousand ways the Lord uses our presence embodied with one another. And we may never know what he’s done. We may find out in glory how he used the fact that you were there and you said something to Joe in the parking lot, and Joe was really tempted to sin that week and what you said kept Joe from sinning in a particular way. We never know what God is going to do, so get off the couch and enjoy it and be amazed at how God works.

31:45 - The Story behind “He Will Hold Me Fast”

Matt Tully
In addition to being an author, you’re maybe primarily a hymn writer—a musician and a songwriter. One of the songs that you’ve helped to write is the popular hymn “He Will Hold Me Fast.” I’m tempted to ask you to sing it for those who aren’t familiar with it, but I’ll resist that. Listener, if you don’t know this song, if you’ve not heard it, push pause, go look it up and listen to it. It’s one of those songs that I think sticks with you, but it sticks with you because it’s got a power to testify beautifully to the hope that we have in Christ. I wonder, Matt, could you share a little bit about how that song came to be? I know that you were only part of the story of writing that song and bringing it back to our churches.

Matt Merker
Thanks for asking about that. The original lyric was written by Ada Habershon in the early twentieth century. The revival preacher R. A. Torrey was in contact with Ada Habershon—she was English—and expressed that there was a need for a type of song that a convert could sing when he’s come to Christ. I believe he had met someone who came to Christ and wasn’t sure if he would always be a Christian, and he was just trying to figure that out—Can I fall away? Of course, we know from Scripture that those who are truly in Christ will remain in Christ. God keeps us by his grace. Jesus says, No one can snatch them from my hand. I will keep them to the end (John 10:28). Jude calls us loved, chosen, and kept by our God. So, Ada Habershon wrote a hymn “He Will Hold Me Fast.” I encountered it because a church member sent me the words and said, Do we sing this? I saw this online and this seems like a great song. I listened to the original tune, which is over 100 years old, and the words struck me as something, first off, that I wanted to sing and that I needed to sing. I have battled doubt and question from time to time over my Christian life. I’ve really identified with the man who says to Jesus, I believe. Help my unbelief (Mark 9:24). I’ve seen a couple of people who I’ve been very close with in different seasons in my life profess to trusting Christ and seemed to follow him for a long time, but then turned their back on Jesus, which is quite tragic. It can be disorienting. What I would say is that what I have learned as I’ve studied Scripture and this issue is Christians who sometimes feel a sense of dread or worry or ask, Could that ever be me?—the fact that you’re concerned about that is itself a sign that you don’t want that to be. You do love Jesus and you want to be kept by him. I think, generally, people who turn their back on Christ, who prove themselves to have never truly to have been genuine believers, are not those who tend to sit around and wonder about that. So, the song was a massive encouragement to my heart and I thought that the traditional tune was just that—it sounded quite traditional and it didn’t have the emotional angst that I sometimes feel in my heart. I had gotten into writing melodies for old hymns and so I tried to set it to music. I thought that it needed to have some more of the truths that really do sustain us when we fear our faith will fail, as the first line says, so that’s why I wrote the third verse which talks about knowing that God’s justice has been satisfied because of Christ’s death and knowing that we have been raised with him to endless life and that he is returning for us. Those are the truths that really sustain my own heart and I think are meant to sustain all believers with the knowledge that he will indeed hold us until the end.

Matt Tully
I’ve often felt that nothing unites a congregation together and really reinforces the essential value of corporate worship to our lives like singing great songs together, songs like “He Will Hold Me Fast.” What’s it like for you to hear God’s people, with one voice, singing that song that you’ve poured some of your own life into and that’s been meaningful to you?

Matt Merker
It’s surreal. It’s a unique blessing from the Lord that I don’t deserve. There’s just a thrill that comes from thinking, Wow, the Lord used me in some small way to help these people with these truths. It’s quite overwhelming, and all I can say is I’m grateful. I wrote the song for myself and for my own church. It was not my intent to publish it or record it and God seemed to have plans for it that were beyond what I could have imagined. So I’m extremely grateful.

Matt Tully
I’m sure you’ve written many, many songs over the years and written new melodies for old songs. What do you think it is about this song in particular that has led it to gain such traction and take hold of so many people in congregations?

Matt Merker
That’s a great question. I do think it’s so reassuring to know that he will keep us to the end. I think many people have experienced those questions, or those doubts, and I guess there’s not many other songs out there that just come out and say, No, he will. He will keep you. John 10:28 says “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.” If the melody that the Lord gave me and allowed me to write has helped people to sing that, it’s the truths that people are grabbing onto. I can’t really explain it. I’ve written several other songs that I think are pretty great, and they don’t go anywhere. So, there’s a deep mystery to it.


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