Podcast: The Good News About Not Being a Perfect Mom (Katie Faris)

May 05, 2025 by: Crossway

This article is part of the The Crossway Podcast series.

Mom Guilt, False Expectations, and Overwhelming Faithfulness

In this episode, Katie Faris talks about unmet expectations, struggles, and solutions to “mom guilt” that many mothers may experience. Katie acknowledges the weaknesses and insufficiencies that moms may encounter and how God meets each of those challenges with grace, faithfulness, and comfort.

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Every Hour I Need You

Every Hour I Need You

Katie Faris

Through personal stories and biblical reflections, Katie Faris walks with women, helping them contemplate God’s unchanging character and see how his purposes are at work, even in the everyday moments of motherhood.

Topics Addressed in This Interview:

00:34 - The Earthiness of Motherhood

Matt Tully
Katie Ferris is the author of God Is Still Good and Every Hour I Need You: 30 Meditations for Moms on the Character of God. She’s also a pastor’s wife, a mother of five, and lives with her family in New Jersey. Katie, thank you so much for joining me today on The Crossway Podcast.

Katie Faris
It’s great to be here. Thanks for having me, Matt.

Matt Tully
Your first book with Crossway, as I mentioned a minute ago, is called God is Still Good, and it’s really focused on encouraging moms with the truth of Scripture in the face of some of the challenges and the pains of motherhood. And as you know, and as all moms listening know, there are many of those things that can happen to a mom over the years. And this new book that you’ve written is now taking a bit of a step back and not just looking at the challenges of motherhood per se, but really offering moms a devotional help for viewing themselves but really viewing God rightly in their calling as moms. And it’s really a wonderful book where you walk through lots of different attributes of God and help women to see God for who he really is. One of the things that you say early in the book is you talk about the “earthiness” of motherhood. And by earthiness I think you mean just the daily challenges, the struggles, and even the mundanity of the calling of a mother. You say that it serves a good purpose ultimately. So I wonder if you could just elaborate a little more on what you mean by earthiness and why it’s so good for all of us but especially moms?

Katie Faris
Earthiness. I think it can mean a lot of things, but I think for me it’s a grounding word. I think of literal dirt and the earth and dirt and rock and water. And I think of what so much of motherhood is made up of is flesh, our children, our skin and bones, and there’s that dynamic going on. From birth we are wiping tears and we are changing diapers and we are clothing and feeding and there are all kinds of earthiness that’s all mixed up in caring for children from the youngest ages.

Matt Tully
Motherhood is not like an ivory tower calling.

Katie Faris
Not at all. There’s lots, literally, of blood, there’s sweat, and there are tears, and there’s just this earthy stuff. And that’s not bad. That’s by design. Maybe not the tears part, but the Garden of Eden in the beginning had water and dirt. And so this is the stuff that we’re made of. It’s the stuff that we interact with and build with and create with. But I think it’s grounding because it’s been there from the beginning. It’s part of God’s design for us as creatures. And I think part of this book even is recognizing that it’s good to be a creature.

Matt Tully
You mentioned that this earthiness is good, and that’s an emphasis that you have in the book and that you even just shared right there. And yet it’s something that I think sometimes all of us can struggle with. We can struggle with the earthiness of our callings as fathers, as mothers. Why do you think it can be so alluring to imagine a less earthy kind of existence?

Katie Faris
You mean when we’re not wiping our shoes when we walk in the door, and having to clean up the spilled milk at breakfast all the time, and all of that? A lot of us live in places that we try to clean up and we try to make appear a certain way, and there’s a place for that too. I want to keep a clean house for my own sake, for my own sanity, and for my family's enjoyment and comfort. I’m trying to remember what your original question was.

Matt Tully
Why do we struggle? Why do we sometimes long to transcend the earthiness of motherhood or our calling?

Katie Faris
I think just going back to that idea of the garden and creation and what we were created for. We weren’t created to be God; we were created to depend on God. And I think, as I mentioned already, earthiness is something that grounds us and it puts us in our place, but in a wonderful way. Because it is good to be a creature. It’s good to be creatures. It’s good to not feel like we have to be God. But I think a lot of times—whether it’s from society or just from ourselves and our own expectations, or it could even be family expectations, whatever those expectations are—we can feel like we are supposed to be more or do more or have more together. And so I think coming back to some of this is actually really freeing, as a mom, of what you are called to but also what you don’t have to be and what you’re not called to.

Matt Tully
What would you say are some of those false expectations or unbiblical expectations that society—or even Christian society, so to speak—can sometimes impose on moms?

Katie Faris
I think there’s this idea of being super mom. I think of the movie The Incredibles. There’s Elastigirl, and she can stretch and she can catch everybody and she can do all the things. And I think as moms, sometimes we can feel like we’re supposed to be able to do everything, like we’re supposed to be able to totally keep up with all the laundry, make our meals from scratch, get everybody to practice on time, and get everybody to bed at a good time. We can just feel the weight of all these responsibilities and feel like we really are supposed to have it all together, have all the right words, be able to answer all the questions. And I think we realize at some point along the way that we just can’t. But I think we can wrestle with this expectation. I think the expectation can come from a lot of different places, and we engage it in different ways in our hearts. It’s going to look different for different women.

Matt Tully
It seems like in response to that, even within the church, there is a bit of a movement, or I don’t know what the right word would be, but you do see, especially online, a reaction against the “mom guilt” that can be so prevalent, and an emphasis on a genuineness or a putting down the facade and just embracing the mess of life at times. What do you think of that? Are there good things about that? Are there ways that can go astray as well?

Katie Faris
The pendulum swings different directions. I think can go back and forth. There could be challenges with going that direction fully also. Whenever we’re making an idol of anything, of having to do things a certain way, there are challenges.

Matt Tully
You write in the introduction, “Mom life exposes our weaknesses and insufficiency.” And then you quote the words of the apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:9, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” So I wonder if you could just share a little story from your own life where you feel like you’ve experienced that truth firsthand? What’s something that was a weakness and was a struggle that God actually used in a powerful way?

Katie Faris
So I have five children. The first three are boys. I remember when my first two were four and two, and I was expecting my third. That was a really busy season, and busy in that my kids just needed me, and I had very active boys that I was chasing around and trying to keep up with. And then as I was expecting my child, I was just exhausted. I wasn’t sleeping well, and I just was really aware of my own personal weakness, my limitations, physical limitations. But it was beyond that. I think in that season, I also was just increasingly aware of my temptations to impatience, to selfishness, to try to escape in different ways, and even just aware of my fears. So in that season, the Lord really met me in a gracious way. He put it on my heart to really try to better understand his love. And in that season where I think I was recognizing that my own love for my children—even though I love my kids a lot, and I truly did—I was falling short. If you look at 1 Corinthians 13 and that standard of love never fails, love is always patient and kind, I don’t live up to that. I fall short of this, and I really want to have a better understanding of how much my Savior loves me, of God’s fatherly love. And I really want to understand what it means in Titus 2, that as a mom I’m called to love my children biblically. And that was a season, to your point with 2 Corinthians 12:9, where I was aware of my weakness and that I really needed to better understand God’s love and then also his power to have his love really be activated in my own life, both in my own understanding of his love for me, as I said, but also for his love to flow through me, which was not going to be something I could conjure up by myself. I had reached my own natural limitations and was coming to grips with those, and I really needed God to love through me and to even teach me how to love my kids in a way that would really show them his love and his grace and his truth. So that was a particular season.

09:52 - Is Meditating on God’s Character Practical Help for My Needs?

Matt Tully
I’m just struck by what you said there and how this struggle that you were feeling, the weakness that you were experiencing, the way you got through that, so to speak, was looking to God, looking at his character. And that’s a foundational idea in this whole book. It’s meditating on God’s character that has the power to change our perspective on our situation, on even those everyday stressors or challenges or frustrations, the uncertainties that motherhood brings with it that we face every day. But I wonder if you could just speak to the person who hears all this, maybe even the Christian, and maybe if they were just being honest, they feel skeptical about the practical benefit of spending more time meditating on God’s character, as if that’s really going to help me in this very practical situation that’s right in front of me, where I’m feeling stressed because my kid is sick, or there’s this potential diagnosis, or school is not going well for one of my children. And they’re just kinda like, “I need practical help. I don’t think I need more meditation on God’s character.” How would you respond to somebody who’s thinking that way?

Katie Faris
It’s very easy for our lives as moms for just all the responsibilities to pile up and to even have that feeling that things just reach a point where we can’t do anymore. Or just there’s this degree of chaos that doesn’t allow us to think about anything further, or find time to sit down and study God’s word in that way. I understand. In certain seasons of my life, walking through my children’s diagnosis with a serious genetic condition, in some of those seasons, it was really hard to find time to study God’s word the way that I might have in other seasons. But God’s word is vital. It is our life. It is that manna and it’s that food that we need, truly. When we are needy as moms, that’s what’s going to feed and satisfy us. We need the Lord, and we need who he reveals himself to be for us in those deepest places. So I think even in those seasons that were hard for me, I was still trying. And I would encourage the mom who’s in this position, pursuing time with the Lord. Something that encourages me is actually looking at Jesus’s example, because he spent so much time caring for needy people and ministering to their needs. And you see him in Scripture at different times trying to escape, and then someone else comes and he pauses and has compassion and he takes care of them. But he’s still pursuing that time alone with his heavenly Father. And even the Son of Man, who didn’t sin, felt his need and his need for that communion with the Lord. And so I think that can encourage us as moms to pursue that time with the Lord, to press into that relationship, even if it’s in the middle of the night while you’re feeding a baby or early in the morning while you’re toddler is sitting on the couch next to you. It might be listening to Scripture in the car when you’re driving your child from one place to another, but I would just keep pursuing that time with the Lord and seeking him.

Matt Tully
I’m struck that it’s not always a lack of time per se, although sometimes it is a struggle to find time. Sometimes it’s just with the stresses and anxieties of life, it’s the emotional capacity, perhaps.

Katie Faris
Or even the head space.

Matt Tully
And that can feel like the hardest part is just having the head space to actually sit down and really study God’s word in a meaningful way.

Katie Faris
That season when my kids were first diagnosed, I mentioned one of the things that I did during that time is I just had a journal, and if I encountered a Bible verse that ministered to me during that time, I just wrote it down in that journal. So it might be something that a friend shared with me in a text, or it might have been one thing I picked out of a sermon or a quote that I saw somewhere. I kept a list, and then that was just an easy thing for me to go back to. And I’m not searching everywhere, but I’m just looking at my list of those scriptures and truths that the Lord had specifically given me in that time. And that was helpful.

Matt Tully
Almost a little record of God’s faithfulness and how he ministered to you very practically over the last week.

Katie Faris
Yes. And then I think in those times when things feel overwhelming and you can even wonder, Is God really with us in this time? I think that’s a place where you can go back then and you can see, okay, this is evidence that God is at work, even when everything feels chaotic.

14:14 - God’s Simplicity, Omnipresence, Wrath, Eternality, and Self-Existence

Matt Tully
You cover a lot of ground in this book. You look at thirty different attributes of God and have a devotional for each of those. And so I wonder if you could just share a little bit about your experience working on the book. As you think about those thirty attributes, and I’m not asking you to pick which ones your favorites are, but is there one in there that was, as you actually got into it, was most surprising? Maybe you maybe realized, I didn’t understand this the way I thought I did, and God just sort of opened up new vistas for you into his character.

Katie Faris
Matt, it was such a joy to write this book. It was so good for my soul. I looked forward to each time I got to open God’s word and study a different attribute, and the process of writing the book just ministered to me so much. It was really a joy. I’m grateful for the opportunity. One of the things that really stood out to me as I was writing the book was just how we separate these attributes of God for our own purposes so that we can slow down and we can understand them more clearly, but they never function alone. So you’re always going to have God’s mercy and his justice. You’re always going to have his love and his wrath. And you’re always going to have his power and his gentleness. It’s always all together, which is mind boggling.

Matt Tully
Theologians refer to that as God’s simplicity. All of his attributes actually can’t properly be distinguished from one another.

Katie Faris
So that was a cool discovery. And I think I went in with my pet favorite attributes of God that I was looking forward to. I’ve always appreciated the truth of God’s omnipresence. That has always been a huge comfort to me as a mom. Just knowing God is with me, that he sees. And even specifically, as his daughter, I have Jesus. I have the Holy Spirit. So he is with me in a particular way as well. So I’ve always loved God’s omnipresence. But you asked about which one surprised me. I’m going to give you two. One that surprised me was God’s wrath, because I was nervous to write about God’s wrath. There are lots of mom books about dealing with your anger and your children’s anger and that sort of thing. But I think wrath is kind of low on the list of what people want to be meditating on.

Matt Tully
It’s low on the devotional hierarchy.

Katie Faris
It’s low on the devotional hierarchy. But it was really good to slow down and see what God feels wrath toward. And with every chapter I was asking, “What difference does it make to me as a mom to know that God is this way?” So what difference does it mean that God is wrathful? Well, it means that God feels wrath towards injustice, towards sin. And that means a lot. It means he cares about the climate of our home, the attitudes, our behaviors towards one another, how my kids are treating one another. It makes a difference. Anyway, that was the one that surprised me. And then it was just also fun to explore some that I hadn’t spent a lot of time thinking about. I’ve already mentioned that God’s attributes are mind boggling when you put them all together, but just even the one thought that God is eternal. As a mom, I feel so bound by time. I’m always running out of time. There’s not enough time to do the things that I want to do. Even as some of my children are getting ready to leave the home, I’m aware of how short the time has been. And I measure things in time all the time. And yet God doesn’t have the same time structure that we do. And I think even just that idea that, as a mom, I’m going to forget things, but he eternally remembers them. They’re just stored up in his memory. I don’t want to surmise things there, but it’s just been fun to think about God’s eternal nature. And that’s comforting.

Matt Tully
Probably one of the most common, maybe most discussed doctrines I suppose that I’ve had with my kids over the years is the issue of God’s eternality. The idea of him being outside of time is so fascinating. It’s so hard for us to grasp and think about, and yet it does feel like so much of parenting and motherhood in particular is centered on the lack of time—the finitude of our time in different ways. And to think that God stands above that in a very amazing way is a sort of encouragement, I think, to us. So was one of the attributes most encouraging to study and then to write about? Did any of them stand out as maybe you knew you were going to be encouraged by it, but you came out and just was amazed at the way that God ministered to you through that?

Katie Faris
Well, I don’t know if this counts, but yesterday I had the opportunity to read the audio book, which is coming out with Crossway as well. And I just started reading the book, and the first chapter is about God’s self-existence. I just started tearing up as I was reading it out loud and just being affected by God’s self-existence. It’s related to his eternality, but he was before anything else existed, and everything else exists in him. And yet at the same time, he wants to have a relationship. And Jesus existed as a human and made a way for us to have a relationship with a self-existent God. I think some of these attributes have just filled me with wonder in a fresh way. I knew I was going to enjoy writing about God’s faithfulness, and I saved that for last because I thought every mom can be comforted by God’s faithfulness, especially when we recognize our lack of faith at times and in different seasons and our shortcomings, where we fall short as moms. Just having God’s faithfulness undergird us and our children at the end of the day is such a comfort. So that was another one that I just really enjoyed writing about.

20:03 - Anxiety, God’s Sovereignty, and Motherhood

Matt Tully
Maybe this question relates to both of those attributes that you mentioned, but I think one of the things that many moms can struggle with, especially today, although not exclusively in our day, but is anxiety. Anxiety about all kinds of things, whether it’s their kids, their health, their schooling, their friends, the home, or something like that. What attributes of God would you say have been most helpful to you in that regard when it comes to the fight against worry.

Katie Faris
The one that comes to mind first is God’s sovereignty. I think a lot of times—I don’t know if it’s all the time, but a lot of times—I think what’s going on with our fear and our anxiety and our worries as moms is maybe that recognition that we’re not in control as much as we maybe think we are at different times or even want to be. I think we realize at different times that certain situations are beyond our control, that we can’t do anything about them. We can’t make them happen, we can’t stop them from happening, we can’t change them. And that can leave us feeling our weakness, and our limitations leave us feeling needy. But I think when we have an understanding of God’s sovereignty, when we study God’s sovereignty, it’s a huge comfort to know that there is one who is always in control over everything. He rules over all. Not just some things but over everything. I think at the end of the day that gives us great freedom because we don’t have to be in charge, because he is. And it’s okay that we’re not in control because there’s someone who loves us and loves our kids even more than we do, who really is able and powerful and strong enough to help, and is wise and knows the best way to do that. And so I think that can speak great encouragement to our fears and anxieties as moms.

Matt Tully
I imagine there are some people listening who would say, “Amen to that. I do believe that. But what I struggle with is knowing the line between me doing my part to be responsible and make good decisions and be proactive with what God has given me to steward, and then, on the other hand, trusting that he is ultimately sovereign.” And sometimes the line between those two becomes blurred. I’ve stopped trusting, and then now I’m kind of trying to control the situation versus where I am just being too passive and I’m too quick to just say, “Oh, God will figure it out. He’s sovereign.” Have you ever struggled with understanding where that line is when it comes to motherhood?

Katie Faris
Yes. I think the examples that I was thinking of would relate to ones where I really can’t do anything. So like when my children were diagnosed, I can’t change that diagnosis. I can’t heal my kids. So it really leaves me not able to do anything. My responsibilities in that situation would be that I’m going to do everything I can to get them good doctors and get them good healthcare, but at the end of the day, I have to trust their future into God’s hands because I can’t do anything. There are other examples that come to mind also, but I think to your question, yes, I think it is a fine balance or a dance or just human responsibility and God’s sovereignty and how those two function together.

Matt Tully
To use your example of even doctors with your kids, you can’t heal your children, but you could theoretically spend more time researching more doctors and kind of get sucked into an unhelpful obsession or something with that. So how do you think about those lines?

Katie Faris
I think we speak the same language as believers. I don’t want to turn it into a Christianese conversation, but there really is this place of faith. There’s surrender, and there’s just bringing that before the Lord. And I think it is walking by faith, and I think that’s where it’s prayers that are specific and then asking the Lord and presenting those needs to the Lord and then saying, “We don’t know what to do. Can you lead us?” And then looking for him to answer. Who are the people he brings into your life? What are the resources? There is that other side where we could spend all of our time trying to find solutions on our own that would be striving, doing that apart from God. So I think there’s a way that we can do research with the Lord and be asking for his help to guide us through that prayerfully and in faith, but there’s also a way to do that where we’re just doing it on our own and we’re not thinking about the Lord. We’re not engaging the Lord in the process, and we’re just spinning with the worry.

Matt Tully
That’s good. I’m just struck at how personal these dynamics can be and how specific they can be. And that just goes back to the meta point you’ve been making, which is just the importance of being close to the Lord and having that daily communion with him. That’s what’s going to help us stay on track in this and keep things in balance as they should be.

Katie Faris
Yeah.

Matt Tully
Is there something that you used to really worry about as a mom that you’ve learned to give to God and to trust God for that might be an encouragement to listeners?

Katie Faris
I can use the example of education. That’s probably one that a lot of parents can relate to.

Matt Tully
School is one of those third-rail issues in parenting. There’s a few of them, but schooling is definitely one of them.

Katie Faris
Yeah, and again, that’s where people will make different decisions based on their own circumstances and their own options and all of that. But I think our family chose to homeschool from the beginning, but that was really, for us, a year by year decision. Do we have faith for it for this child for next year given the particular needs and our particular family’s means and our circumstances? It really has been something we evaluate year by year. And as our kids are getting older and we’ve done high school, high school has looked different for each of our kids, and so each of those has just been like asking, “What are the options?” Bring it before the Lord, and then just seeing him faithfully provide. But I worried a lot, especially in those early years of homeschooling, asking, “Are my kids getting all the information that they need? Am I providing what they need?” And I think it’s easy, as a homeschool mom, to feel like there’s a lot that’s on my shoulders and that’s riding on me that I’m responsible for in this area.

Matt Tully
For my kids’ future even.

Katie Faris
For my kids’ future. So that’s definitely been an area where I’ve had to trust the Lord and bring it to him. And it’s not that I stop worrying, but I think as I’ve experienced his faithfulness with my kids so far, I think I’m growing and trusting that he’s going to lead the others too.

Matt Tully
You said that phrase “experiencing his faithfulness.” Speak to the mother listening right now who would say, “I just don’t feel like I have experienced that recently. I feel like I’m maybe in a dry season where God doesn’t feel near to me, and so the thought of drawing close to him and finding comfort from him and knowing him, I just don’t feel excited about that, to be honest.” What encouragement would you offer to somebody who’s in that situation?

Katie Faris
I think the encouragement that I would offer is it’s good that that person’s being honest and knows where they’re starting—that I don’t feel these things, that I don’t feel inclined these ways. I think the question would be, Are you okay with that? Is that where you wanna stay? I don’t think that’s where God wants you to stay. And so if you can acknowledge that this is where I am, where does God want you to go next? And so maybe you need to ask for help from somebody. If you don’t feel these things on your own and you really don’t feel inclined to open God’s word or to try to squeeze time with the Lord into your life, is there someone else in your life who can kind of talk you into it, because he knows it’s what you need to do and what God wants you to do? I don’t know. That’s what comes to mind first.

Matt Tully
That’s a whole other book on fellowship in motherhood or something.

Katie Faris
But if you know you’re at that place and it’s not where you want to be, that’s also a good thing, because you’re in a great position to cry out for help. Again, a lot of what’s behind this book is we can’t do this on our own. We are needy people. Who are we going to go to or what are we going to turn to for help? God is great and he is all these things and all these attributes, and he’s all these things not just in a general way, but he is those things for us as moms. And so why not go to him?

28:25 - How Can Husbands Help Their Wives Pursue God?

Matt Tully
Yeah, absolutely. A few more questions here. What would it look like for husbands or fathers who are listening right now to help their wives pursue a deeper understanding of God in the midst of their mothering?

Katie Faris
That’s a great question.

Matt Tully
One thing that maybe would be an exhortation to the dads.

Katie Faris
Besides asking them to buy my book and give it to their wives?

Matt Tully
You could say that! That’s the most practical. Dads will probably love that one. “Okay, I can do that right now, and I can check it off.”

Katie Faris
I think my hope in writing the book is just to try to make it as easy as possible for women to engage these attributes, trying to do some of the homework for them so they can open these short, easy-to-read chapters, and it’s right there. And at the end of every chapter there are a couple of reflection points and just questions to be asking ourselves that do help bring it home. But yeah, that would be my encouragement.

29:26 - Lightning Round

Matt Tully
That’s good. We’ll close with four lightning round questions. Just quick little questions that could be interesting to hear your thoughts on. What’s the best piece of parenting advice that you’ve ever received that you love to share with new moms?

Katie Faris
It’s actually the advice that my pastor gave to my husband and me when he visited us in the hospital after I’d birthed my first son. I asked him, “Here I am, this brand new mom, feeling so helpless and I have no clue what I’m doing. What advice can you give me?” And it was so simple, and it was just that parenting is by faith. And I have clung to that because there are so many times that, with parenting issues, there’s isn’t necessarily a clear right or wrong, and it’s more wisdom issues where you need discernment. But I think that idea of walking by faith with the Lord in parenting, just as in all these other parts of Christian life, has been really a guide for me.

Matt Tully
Katie, what’s a verse that you love to pray over your kids that you might recommend to somebody else?

Katie Faris
I don’t know that it’s one that I’ve put a lot of thought into, but it’s just one that I find myself going to by default. It’s from when Jesus talks about what are the most important commandments—to love God and love one another. Especially in a home where we have multiple children, I’ll just find myself regularly praying that the Lord would help us to love one another well.

Matt Tully
What’s a verse that you have been praying over yourself as a mom in recent months?

Katie Faris
I’m going to turn to Colossians. It’s a verse that I think I started praying over myself, but then I also started praying over some of the other moms in my life. And also, I put it in the front of my book. It’s from Colossians 1, verses 9 and following. “And so, from the day we heard, we have not ceased to pray for you, asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him: bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; being strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy; giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light.”

Matt Tully
Katie, thank you so much for sharing these insights into God’s word and into who he’s revealed himself to be and why that matters for moms in particular.

Katie Faris
It’s great to be with you. Thank you.

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