Podcast: Why We Created a New Hymnal (Keith and Kristyn Getty)

September 01, 2025 by: Crossway

This article is part of the The Crossway Podcast series.

The Story Behind The Sing! Hymnal

In this podcast, Keith and Kristyn Getty explore the purpose behind The Sing! Hymnal and how each of the individual components contribute to a helpful resource for the congregation, the family, and the individual. Keith and Kristyn discuss how a hymnal instills great truths, helps us study Scripture, and nourishes the soul.

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The Sing! Hymnal

The Sing! Hymnal

Keith Getty, Kristyn Getty, John Martin, Dan Kreider, Douglas Sean O'Donnell

Curated by award-winning hymn writers Keith and Kristyn Getty, The Sing! Hymnal features timeless hymns to deepen corporate worship and unity among believers. With liturgical readings and a durable cover, this edition is ideal for regular church use.

Topics Addressed in This Interview:

00:33 - Years in the Making

Matt Tully
Keith and Kristyn Getty are award-winning hymn writers who co-founded the Getty Music Organization. In partnership with Crossway, Keith and Kristyn worked with their team to create The Sing! Hymnal, which features nearly 500 of the best Christian hymns, past and present, specially curated and organized by the Getty Music team. Keith, Kristyn, thanks so much for joining me today on The Crossway Podcast.

Keith Getty
It’s a pleasure to be here, Matt.

Kristyn Getty
Thank you so much.

Matt Tully
I think it’s fair to say that this hymnal project that Getty Music and Crossway had been working on for a few years now, well, I came into this thinking about all the adjectives I could use to describe this project. But then I thought it might be more interesting to hear how you would describe the project. So as you think about it, what are the words that immediately come to mind when you think about this hymnal project? Keith, do you want to start?

Keith Getty
Exciting. Some days it’s exhausting and some days it’s overwhelming just because I’ve never done anything like it. But it is extraordinarily exciting because it’s a chance for everyone out there who is a pastor, an elder, a leader of a group, a worship leader, or a parent or a grandparent to actually have something in their hands that can help shape the future of those that they care for most—their families, their friendships, their congregation. So many of my spiritual heroes talked about the Bible and the hymn book being the two things that helped shape their minds, their emotions, their prayer lives, and, by extension, their actions, their reactions, their witness, and their legacy. And so it’s an overwhelming project. There have been some very dark nights of the soul in the process because we’ve realized the weight of it but also the potential of it, and indeed, our own weaknesses in that process.

Matt Tully
Kristyn, how do you feel about it as you’ve reflect back on what it’s been like so far?

Kristyn Getty
Well, I think there’s a sense of excitement, yes, and relief at getting to this point. The hymnal has been something that Keith has talked about for years. As he said, he was so impacted in terms of his vision for hymn-writing initially through growing up with hymnals and navigating the church’s year, the life of the church, what it means to be a believer through the songs that he sings. And media to a certain extent as well. So I’ve just been excited to see this moment finally come. As a songwriter, it has been exciting to be able to go through and collect songs together, as we’ve both been together championing hymns, traditional and modern, for a long time. And so it’s good to work towards a single source at this point of time that’s gathering all that work together. And it’s also provided an impetus to keep writing, because where do you stop a hymnal? Well, you just have to stop and you have to press print. But it just opens up a whole new era of Oh, I want to write this and do this! And so it’s exciting just being able to see that collection come together, and we’re hoping that these songs go into people’s lives in deep and varied ways.

Matt Tully
We will talk a little bit about the song selection process—how do you pick which songs to include, and how are they organized? We’ll get to that. Over the past couple years we’ve probably spent countless hours, both the Getty Music team and the Crossway team, collaborating together in person and on videos and phone calls. We’ve spent hours and hours working together on this project. I could imagine some people might think, Oh, Crossway and Getty Music are putting out a hymnal, so they just kind of slap the Getty Music name on that thing and just put it out. But it’s really been an incredible labor of love for you both in particular.

Kristyn Getty
Yeah. Everybody has sweated this out.

Matt Tully
You both have been very intimately involved in virtually every detail of this project.

Keith Getty
Yeah, I think so. But again, the first thing I would say is I think Kris and I both feel a sense of both joy in the people that we share life with, as well as a fairly realistic inadequacy. I think we know what we can do to the point that most of what is required for a hymnal requires a team effort. And so working through all of the hymns, combing through the historic prayers of spiritual giants of Christian history that can help us all pray better, all twenty centuries of Christian history are represented in this. And so even just to use the prayers as an opportunity for personal devotion or family devotion, or to use in your churches, you realize what it is to be the church of God. We’re standing on the shoulders of so many generations of extraordinary people and getting to utilize their skills and their work, hopefully making them available to a new generation. So I think about that at one level from those who’ve gone before us. But I think also about our generation. The great hymnals throughout history, certainly all of history, always do one or two things. Number one, they always come at a point in history where there has been a new canon of hymns written that are worthy of having global understanding. And I think what the last twenty-five years of the modern hymn-writing that we’ve been involved in has done is it has created this incredible canon of songs. But I think the second thing most hymnals do is they basically just help us recalibrate how, when considering the creative work of history, how we can reapply that for today. So, hymns from “All Creatures of Our God and King” to “Hark! The Herald Angels Sing,” we don’t sing the original versions. We sing the version that a hymnal editor said at one point, in order to make this work for the next generation, George Whitfield had to rewrite “Hark! The Herald Angels Sing.” And “All Creatures of Our God and King,” which started off from St. Francis of Assisi, has had multiple, multiple versions that have come down the line.

Matt Tully
A lot of people’s minds just got blown. They didn’t know that.

Kristyn Getty
There’s a bit of editing required then.

Keith Getty
And so that’s the two things that great hymnals have done, and I think this hymnal has tried to do that. Every artistic opinion is just an opinion. Do you know what I mean? We and our team have tried to say, What are the most helpful? And so the three sections I find most helpful are, first, the entire church service, one is the entire Christian life (from childhood to death), and then the entire life of Christ in our entire church’s year.

Matt Tully
This is the division of the hymnal.

Keith Getty
That’s the three divisions.

Kristyn Getty
He thinks in threes, so it was very pleasing for him to have that added.

Keith Getty
That also helps us so much because you get the hymns, you get the beautiful readings from the ESV, you get the great prayers from Christian history, and even some readings or liturgies from that are that just so beautifully written by craftsmen who were far more able than we were.

Kristyn Getty
Wouldn’t you say, Keith, that it has been interesting, by just looking at the whole project, just the varied tasks that all come together to make a hymnal? The conversations of the weight of the paper, how the music was going to be notated, the proofreaders, the editing, all the little stories, the covers, and the colors.

Matt Tully
I learned what an engraver is. An engraver is the person who’s actually putting the notes on the page, so to speak.

Kristyn Getty
The art form of the hymnal.

Keith Getty
I remember one of those days where, Crossway, all your gang were in and all our gang were in, and we’re having all these different meetings and breakfast meetings and lunch meetings and all that kind of stuff. At the end of it John Martin goes, “I’m not sure I’ve ever been with this many nerds in one day.” Because everybody was obsessed with the weight of paper, with the choice of a word. I remember I was talking to someone today about the writing of “By Faith,” the hymn we wrote back in 2009. Stuart and Kristyn would not mind me saying that they couldn’t agree on the chorus. I trust both of them in the lyric. And in the end, the CD missed its deadline for distribution. It had to go back, and in the end—

Matt Tully
Because you couldn’t land the plane on this one issue?

Keith Getty
Yeah. And then one day in Boston, I actually had to make the call. The fourth line of the chorus, that was the one that Stuart would not bend on, and that was to have the fourth line of the chorus to be, “We walk by faith and not by sight.” Kris thought it should be, “By faith we walk and not by sight” because the song is “By Faith.” But he said that the two key musical lines—“We walk by faith”—meant it needed to be there. Because we’d lived with the song for six months, it felt counterintuitive, and he pushed in that. So we then took Kristyn’s line too, which was much warmer—“and we will fix our eyes and him, our soul’s reward”—that kind of warmth that she had. His line two was really sticky. And then we took his line three, and I had to decide, so I said to Kristyn and Stuart, “Are you happy?” And he goes, “I’m glad it’s done, if that’s what you mean.” And so that was a month of going back and forth over a few words, but they actually did make a difference.

Kristyn Getty
The hymnal represents thousands of those conversations.

Keith Getty
Tens of thousands of those conversations. When you think about the translation of "All my hope in God is founded, he does still my trust renew," that’s the translation by the English poet laureate to King George V, father of King George VI. And so these are the finest poets in human history who have poured their brilliance into these things. So it is interesting.

09:39 - Why a Hymnal?

Matt Tully
You all know that we live in this world of streaming audio, big screens, and slick church services where things are projected up there. And so I think one possible response to the idea of the Gettys and Crossway putting out a physical hymnal is, Why a hymnal? Do people use hymnals? Why does that fit today? How do you think about that?

Keith Getty
That’s a great question. And I think in some ways there are parallels to why we own a Bible. But I think the hymnal does a whole number of things. The number one thing is if I think if we can begin a conversation over the next five years about church leaders curating what they sing, that alone will be a life-changing ministry for the global church. So, the curation is the number one thing. Having a collection of hymns that we say, We believe these are helpful and healthy and holy for our church. And if the people have these and they own a copy and they can read it, it helps them remember and recall and carry them. Our grandparents all had hymn books by their bedside, because most nights you should read your Bible, but you know what? Some nights you’re not in the mood. And some nights actually just reading beautiful hymns and thinking about the melodies can actually do the same thing if it is a good collection.

Kristyn Getty
It’s a reminder of the care over the things that we sing. You mentioned the leadership being sort of a custodian of the songs that the congregation sings across the generations, also the actual physicality of a book and collection is a constant reminder that we care about this and we’re taking the whole church on a journey through the various different themes and parts of it. And I’d also say just as a mother, leaning into that idea of the hymnal in the home, that it’s not just for public worship and the big gathering but it’s for family worship and for times in the home. I even think it’s for music education in the home. Both of us learned how to sing by singing the songs of the church. A lot of Keith’s first music was in the church. That’s where we learned. So we’re hopeful that with the music notation and the lyrics that it encourages the next generation to apply their musical skills towards the songs of the church and that becomes a part of family life.

Matt Tully
And that’s such a huge emphasis that you all have had since the very beginning of this project. Although you want this to be used by pastors and churches in corporate worship, and that’s a wonderful application, there’s so much more that this hymnal could be for families and for individuals, for family worship. Like you said, Keith, it’s something that could live on your nightstand and be a resource of theological reflection and meditation.

Kristyn Getty
And the artistic quality is such that it comes to the heart of what music actually does. When things are written to music with the cadence of a phrase, the rhyme, the meter, and all these things, they don’t just aid memorization, which is incredibly important when we’re trying to distill great truths into poetic phrases that stay with us and that mean something, but they just become a powerful part of the devotional life—how we pray, how we think about things. And that sort of artistic beauty brings a unique nourishment to the soul. And so you study the Scriptures and study the songs that come from the Scriptures just to help nourish the soul, the family, and a congregation.

Matt Tully
You two co-founded Getty Music with “a view to the year 2050, in the hope that individuals, families, and churches would celebrate the beauty of Christ-centered hymnody.” So as you think about that vision that you had for the Getty Music Organization, how does this particular resource, this hymnal, fit into that ambition?

Keith Getty
I think it’s really just to help people know God and make him known. That’s what we all live for. And our corner is being able to help sing deeply because that is so much of how we know God. And then in turn, we’ll make him known. In 2000 when we started this, we actually thought, and I still believe this, that the global church was actually at a singing crisis. And so I think where the hymnal fits in is, in some ways, it’s a halftime report on how we’re doing. Time for the halftime music break, so to speak. Twenty-five years ago, my problem was that when I was wanting to do a Bible study or have people to the house and sing songs or was asked to lead an evening service, they wanted modern songs. But there was only two really good modern songs. There was about twelve that were okay, but they weren’t great, and they weren’t that deep.

Kristyn Getty
But they weren’t lasting.

Keith Getty
They weren’t wrong, but there were only two that compared to hymns. And so we thought if we could somehow contribute to that. The start of it was just about writing a few great hymns to have. And I think people growing up now in their teens, twenties, and thirties don’t realize that twenty-five years ago we just didn’t have it. They now have, in all of those churches, modern songs that are rich and good to sing. And so that has been the initial part of the battle in some ways. I think the battle now shifts because now that we have those songs, the big issue is actually curation now. At multiple levels, you now have over 300,000 songs available on CCLI alone. You have every young church musician wanting to be a superstar and write their own songs, no matter how bad they are, and put their congregation through the absolute torture of having to sing their songs. We need to clamp down and say, okay, throughout all Christian history, Christian leaders, whether that is parents, pastors, denominational and movement leaders, or whether it is worshipers, they have led what their congregation sings and determine that. There are too many pastors especially, but parents as well, who are just washing their hands of the duty that this is. We really felt this is the next big frontier, in terms of helping primarily pastors but also leaders do that.

15:31 - Song Selection for the Hymnal

Matt Tully
Let’s talk about that. The hymnal includes nearly 500 songs, which sounds like a lot, but when you start to think about it, you think about the 300,000 that are out there. Any Google search could turn up so many, so it really isn’t that many songs. And then you think about the physical limitations of a hymnal. So how did you choose which hymns would be included in this? Summarize that in one paragraph.

Kristyn Getty
It’s sort of an unfinished job in your head sometimes.

Keith Getty
It’s just an artistic opinion. And obviously, it was written for our context here. So if I was living in Paris, France, if I was living in Italy, if I was living in Buenos Aires or Singapore, I would’ve made different choices, to be very clear. But the context primarily was that this is primarily for the American church-goer, and, secondarily, the English-speaking church-goer, and then thirdly, if others happened to think they could use it. So first of all, it is contextual. The primary thing was what are the songs that we think we could grow old with? Over two-thirds of the hymns are old hymns that have been proven through the test of time. But we also wanted to be relevant to our generation and have that fresh vibrancy that the singing of our generation does. And so with those ones, we went for songs that, again, we felt had that beauty and richness that is just great to sing that we thought we could keep on singing. And again, it’s conjecture and obviously we are much closer to all the songs that we and our team and our friends write. So, that’s just part of it. That’s the same for every hymnal editor. But trying to find the ones that we thought would be beautiful writing. Someone said to me yesterday that songs should be sound and singable. And I said that’s the most horrible description I ever heard for hymn. That’s not how you should ever think of it. If you’re out there and you’re thinking about songs for Sunday or songs that your kids should know, you want to have songs that you can’t wait to sing. Just ask yourself that question: Is this song a song I can’t wait to sing this Sunday? Then sing it. If you’re apathetic about it, don’t do it. Don’t do it. We’re made in God’s image. We’re made to love the food that we eat, the music that we sing and listen to, the homes that we live in, the gardens that we walk through. The beauty of nature, the places that we go. That is how we are made. And so the songs we sing have to be absolutely beautiful about the Lord. Rich in his beauty, but beautiful about the Lord. And then from that, obviously they should be sound and singable, but we’re presuming that. But it’s a much, much higher goal.

Kristyn Getty
And also wider, because maybe in this last generation or two, we have tended to sing more narrowly about the Lord and about the subjects we could be singing about. And I think a hymnal provides an opportunity. You look at a table of contents page of any hymnal and suddenly you’re in a different world.

Matt Tully
Songs of lament.

Kristyn Getty
And so you start to find places for these songs which sort of just help fill up the church’s year and give a healthy diet to the singing of the church, which in turn then shapes your mind, your thoughts, your prayers, your evangelism, your mission, your time with your kids. It all sort of flows the same way. If you’re not singing about it, it’s probably not a priority. And so the hymnal allows you to explore a much wider sense of what we are called to do and be and think as God’s people.

Matt Tully
It strikes me that it just can cultivate an intentionality in the pastor or in the parent’s life as they think about the songs that they are feeding to their children.

Kristyn Getty
And it brings more interest as well. There’s so much to sing about. There are so many things. Why shouldn’t we sing about them?

Matt Tully
Let’s get out of the ruts that maybe we’re in. Tell us a little bit about the hymnal advisory committee. What was the purpose of this group?

Keith Getty
That was an extension of friendships over the years. Johnny and I and the gang put that together. Johnny MacKay has been working with me since 1999. He came over with us, and when we first came to America, nobody was really into it. And certainly, Christian music thought it was weird. And so we just had to go church by church, denomination by denomination, leader by leader, seminary by seminary and introduce this idea of hymns. But along the way we just met some of the most fantastic people.

Kristyn Getty
Kindred spirits who felt the same things.

Keith Getty
So we said to all of them, “Would you be available for us to write to you every couple of weeks? Give us your feedback when you have time. If you want a private phone call, we’ll sit and have a private phone call with you and chat.” We’ll do occasional group screen times, and then we’ll all get together at the end. We’ll give you all tickets. We’re buying them all. We’ll have a big party with them all on the Wednesday afternoon, a big dinner, and give them all free passes for them and their wives, and they all get free passes to the conference and free copies of the book.

Kristyn Getty
It was a safeguard too because they represent different parts of the country, different parts of the world, different stages of life.

Keith Getty
They all have different opinions: Why are you doing laments? Why have you got songs that are like lament? Why is there not enough laments? They all have different opinions.

Matt Tully
Was it hard to navigate some of that feedback?

Keith Getty
I don’t look at it like that. These are interesting and different questions. You’ve just got to work it out. I don’t think any of the guys are expecting us to please them. They’re not those kind of people.

Kristyn Getty
Somebody has to be the editor.

Matt Tully
They know that that’s your role.

Keith Getty
Yeah.

Kristyn Getty
We’ve appreciated their input, and it’s not just one-off things, as Keith said. It does represent several decades of friendship and people speaking into what we do. And so we wanted to share it was a safeguard, it was a help, it was a constant inspiration. It created the right itches in different places.

Keith Getty
I think a great thing about the hymnal has been we have had a boss in Crossway. We’ve had a fantastic team around us of close advisors—all the speakers at the Sing! Conference spoke into it in one way or another. A lot of the modern prayers are by John Piper, Alistair Begg, Tim Keller—some of these wonderful guys who have spoken so much into this whole thing. And Johnny Tyler, Don Carson, and the list goes on. But we’ve also had this larger crowd of people just all speaking up their opinions. So many people I know who’ve had to do hymnals have been the chair of a committee, where they have to meet every month for four years, and every decision has to be voted on. And everybody’s between meetings, trying to canvas votes.

Matt Tully
It’s almost political.

Keith Getty
But that’s not been the nature of this. We were trusted to lead it, but we had accountability above us, we had accountability beside us, and we had a team around us, and I guess below us in some ways. They were all in touch and were pretty opinionated.

Matt Tully
I can just speak to the level of trust and confidence and respect that Crossway had in you and your team. This isn’t just an idea you had yesterday. This is the extension of decades of faithful ministry and songwriting.

Kristyn Getty
It’s a deep, ongoing appreciation to Crossway for partnering with us in this project and caring so much about every little detail and sharing the vision with us and filling in all the gaps of things that we couldn’t even imagine in how you put a hymnal together. The community of that is just so deeply appreciated, and we’re just excited to see all those efforts coming to fruition.

22:41 - The Organization of the Hymnal

Matt Tully
The hymnal is organized, as you already said, into three sections: the worship service, the Christian life, and the life of Christ. What was the vision behind that? Why organize the hymnal in that way and not just alphabetically? What was behind that?

Keith Getty
Well, liturgy matters at every level. And when I say that, it’s how we order our services. Martin Luther’s Reformation might not have been called the Reformation if he had not decided that at the core of everything we have to reform. Reform the liturgy, reform the order of what we do when we gather together. We had to bring singing back. We had to shape a service with the gospel. We had to read God’s word. We had to preach God’s word. And the elements had to point to the greatness of God. Redefining what communion services were. And so that is as old as one could argue the Reformation. One could argue it’s as old as Christianity itself. What he recognized from the church fathers was that the ordering of our services is so crucial to how we think. There’s a famous story told about a church potluck occasion where the pastor was walking around and all the kids were missing. One little boy, who was a show-off, comes running towards the pastor in front of all the young girls and says, "Pastor, why do you always say the grass withers, the flowers fade, but the word of the Lord stands forever"? And the pastor pauses and says, "That’s why." And he walks away. In other words, the things that we say, the things that we repeat, the things that we emphasize, the things that we care about and the order in which they’re done affect every part of the Christian life. Sunday worship affects daily devotional and affects daily life. So we wanted the book to have that sense of order that could affect how we think about our Sunday worship, how we think about the journey of the Christian life, and ultimately how we see it demonstrated in Jesus’s life. And so the songs, the readings, the prayers and liturgies all tie into that.

Matt Tully
There’s a structure and intentionality. Contrasting that and all the thought that’s gone into what’s being sung when for what occasions, it’s so different than when I open up my Apple Music. It’s often Getty music, but it’s often just kind of a random mix. We can just turn on the radio function, where it just sort of picks a song and it starts to create a playlist that’s random. And I think that’s so often the way that we think about these things, but there’s a rich intentionality behind what you guys have done. Another thing the hymnal includes, which is really interesting and really fun, is all these stories behind the hymns. And it’s just this incredible collection. Every hymn has a short anecdote or history of the hymn itself. What was the purpose of including that in this hymnal?

Keith Getty
I think learning the story behind everything is particularly relevant to our age. But actually, it’s as old as life itself. Jesus told things in stories. When it comes to helping people understand why we sing deeper songs, there is work to be done. So that’s the first thing. Kristyn always tells the story of when we were with Alistair in Ohio, we used to go to this basement restaurant in Hudson. What was it they did? It was some kind of fish.

Kristyn Getty
It was clams I think.

Keith Getty
It was some kind of fish that they wrapped in bacon that was just delicious. He actually showed me how he made it and what he did with it. He explained why this food was amazing, showed you all the ingredients, explained what each of the flavors did. There was a tart flavor with this. There was a more sweet, rich flavor with this. This is how this combines. By the time I got it, I loved it. And it taught me a lot about the way to teach people to be excited about something. So, part of it was getting people excited about why the songs exist and get them to love them. Because we love them, they should love them, and so that’s the hope. The second thing is it helps worship leaders and pastors to have something to make it more deeply relevant when they lead it. But thirdly, a lot of the stories are actually just telling the gospel. We hope that part of the use of this hymnal will be pew hymnals. And so as it is used in pews, people will read it, kids will read it, people who are not Christians, and they’ll just be getting 1,000 different ways to understand the beauty of the gospel and how it changes every part of life. And so that’s the hope.

Kristyn Getty
And back to the original point of how do you pick which songs go in, that process of writing those stories would confirm in your mind and heart that this needs to be in this hymnal. Why is this critical? If there’s only 500 spots, why does this one need to be here? And so that also helped determine which were in. What story is good to tell? What are the lines? What’s the reason for this song? So that also served that process.

27:31 - Introducing a New Picture Book for Kids

Matt Tully
This hymnal is releasing with a number of different editions. There’s going to be a black hardcover and a green hardcover—

Kristyn Getty
I insisted on the green to represent Ireland’s beautiful green grass.

Keith Getty
And Rory McIlroy winning the Masters. I think that needs to be mentioned again.

Matt Tully
There’s also an accompaniment edition. There’s an online interface where people can purchase music and browse the hymns in that kind of a context. I also want to mention We Sing!, Kristyn, your new picture book for kids. That has just come out as well. I was wondering, briefly, if you could just explain how that connects in with this whole hymnal

Kristyn Getty
Well, there is a little section in the hymnal that is for family worship, and we’re just excited by that. It’s a short, little section to sort of get that going. Obviously, all the hymns can be used for families, but one in particular that was helpful for that. And as we sat back and we thought about it, we have four little girls, and thinking through the songwriting process, the songs we sing, how services are put together, the kids have really challenged us. We’ve cared deeply about the question, What does it mean for our families? And so we were just thinking about different ways that we could encourage families and children in particular to think biblically and beautifully about singing. And one of the ways we do that is books for kids that try and teach them that. So, there’s one called Pippa and the Singing Tree, which is more to do with the heart and imagination and just loving singing. Like Keith told the story about tasting that food, that you just sort of get it because it’s lovely and beautiful and wonderful. So it sort of goes after that part of it. The We Sing! book is a little more instructional. We did a book a number of years ago called Sing! that just went through some of the key ideas and what the singing diet of the church should be and for families and individuals. It maps some of those ideas but in rhyming form for children.

Matt Tully
It’s playful and fun. There are beautiful, unique, and creative illustrations that just make it so accessible.

Kristyn Getty
So it all just sort of speaks into this idea of all of us singing together, but that lovely little emphasis, which I care so much about, is families singing and getting our kids involved in the singing voice of the church.

Matt Tully
That’s wonderful. Keith and Kristyn, thank you so much for all that you’re doing on all these different fronts—your songwriting, working on this hymnal, children’s books. We so appreciate what you’ve done for the church.

Kristyn Getty
Thank you so much, Crossway, for all your help in this effort.

Keith Getty
Thanks, Matt.

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